Illinois Fire Prevention Association

NFPA 25

Primary Technical Committee Representative – Richard M. Ray & Alternate – Dave Baron – Cybor Fire Protection

– 1983 Graduate, Illinois Institute of Technology (Bachelor of Science in Fire Protection & Safety Engineering)

– 1994 Graduate, Illinois Benedictine College (Masters in Business Administration)

– Licensed Professional Engineer, State of Illinois since 1990

– President of Cybor Fire Protection Company & Global Fire Protection Company, Downers Grove, IL

Member

Illinois State Board of Professional Engineers
Illinois Fire Prevention Association
National Fire Protection Association
Principal Member Technical Committee NFPA 25 (Standard for Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance of Water Based Fire Protection Systems)
Alternate Member Technical Committee on Residential Sprinkler Systems
National Fire Sprinkler Association
Member Board of Directors, 2008 – present
Member Contractor’s Council, 2008 – present
Area Director of Area 6 (IL, WI, MN), 2008 – 2011
– Director at Large 2011- present
– Member Engineering and Standards Committee 2008 – present
– Chairman Residential Committee 2008 – 2011
– Member Residential Committee 2008 – present
– Chairman Quality Assurance Committee 2011- present
– Member Quality Assurance Committee 2008 – present
– Member Inspection, Testing & Maintenance Committee 2011 – present
– Illinois Chapter National Fire Sprinkler Association
– Chairman Industry Promotion Committee 2005 – 2011 (member since 1989)
– Member Joint Apprenticeship Training Committee 2005 – present
– Member Labor Negotiating Committee 2005 – present
– Member Labor Management Mutual Cooperation Committee 2008 – present
Underwriter’s Laboratories Standards Technical Panels:
47 – Fire Hose and Valve Equipment
199 – Sprinklers and Fixed Nozzles for Fire Protection
203 – Steel Piping Hangers, and Braces for Fire Protection Service
219 – Lined Fire Hose for Interior Standpipes
260 – Valves for Fire Protection Service
852 – Metallic Sprinkler Pipe and Rubber Gasketed Fittings for Fire Protection Service
1820 – Fire Tests of Pneumatic Tubing and Plastic Sprinkler Pipe for Flame & Smoke Characteristics
1821 – Thermoplastic Sprinkler Pipe and Fittings for Fire Protection Service
International Code Council – Code Technology Committee on Balanced Fire Protection
Society of Fire Protection Engineers
Illinois Fire Inspectors Association
Codes & Standards Committee
Illinois Society of Professional Engineers & National Society of Professional Engineers
City of Aurora, IL Fire Code Board of Appeals and Permanent Building & Fire Code Committee

NFPA Committee Reports

Results from the 2016 Tech. Meeting vote for NFPA 25 CAM’s (08-01-2016) | Report
Summary:
Submitted by Dave Baron

NFPA 25 Update (06-01-2016) | Report
Summary:
The Association Technical Meeting is scheduled for 6/16 in Las Vegas – we will be well represented. Attached is the final list of NITMAMs/CAMs that have been filed – as you can see, eleven of the proposed actions will affect NFPA 25. Let Dave Baron or me know if you have any questions.
Rich

Here’s my ballot (02-19-2015) | Report

Summary:
I guess you can only add 1 attachment per blog so here’s the ballot. Thanks

First revision (02-19-2015) | Report

Attached are the 1st revision report (old ROP) – my ballot is in the next blob. You will see which proposed revisions I am for & which I am against. My ballot is cast. If anyone has any questions, please contact me. Thanks – Rich

Pre 1st draft meeting (07-30-2014) | Report

Summary:
The Pre 1st Draft meeting is scheduled for 8/18 and 8/19 in Chicago. I will be there – this is like the “old” ROP meeting. Public input is completed and attached here. Let me know if you have any concerns. Thx Rich

2014 Edition of NFPA 25 issued (10-09-2013) | Report

The 2014 edition of NFPA 25 has been issued as a standard. Please see the attached PDF explaining the Standards Council’s decisions regarding the Certified Amending Motions that were heard at the NFPA Conference in June 2013.

NFPA 25 NITMAMS posted (05-07-2013) | Report
Summary:
Here’s the NITMAMS that will be argued beginning on Thurs 6/13 at 8am at the NFPA Conference – if you are an NFPA member please show up as we will need your support. Thx, Rich

Hot News!!!!! (04-11-2013)
I was informed late last night that NFPA has received 35(!) Notices of Intent to Make a Motion (NITMAMs) on the 2014 edition of NFPA 25; twenty-five of these came from technical committee members (which is not good for the Chairman, Bill Koffel, as it gives the appearance that the Committee is in disarray since the ROC passed ballot). Neither myself nor my alternate (Dave Baron) have filed any NITMAMs.

Based on the ROC balloting, my assumption is that these NITMAMs will include:
Trying to eliminate Chapter 14 (internal inspections).
Trying to eliminate the revised requirements for weekly churn testing of electric fire pumps.
Trying to force inspecting contractors to identify recalled sprinkler heads.
Trying to force inspecting contractors to identify areas without sprinkler protection.
Trying to force inspecting contractors to verify the design & adequacy of a system.
Placing responsibility for dealing with impairments on contractors.
Trying to force inspecting contractors to make judgment calls regarding painted, loaded & corroded heads.
Changing the antifreeze requirements (again).
Removing the need for flow testing & hydrostatic testing of standpipe systems.
Revising the accepted practice for full forward flow testing of backflow preventors.

There is a chance that some of these NITMAM’s will not be certified by the Standards Council and that some of these, even if certified, will be withdrawn at the last second (like the water mist guys recently did regarding NFPA 409/aircraft hangers). We will know for sure which of these are certified and what the essence of these NITMAMs is on 5/3/13.

What this means is that there WILL BE a need to have our local contractors & vendors go to the NFPA Association Technical Meetings (starts Wed 6/12 at 2pm till ??? and again Thurs 6/13 8am till ???). ANYONE can get up to a mic and speak but ONLY NFPA MEMBERS can vote. The meetings will be at McCormick Place. YOU HAVE TO SIGN UP TO ATTEND (but not for the entire conference). Go to www.nfpa.org/conference – you’ll figure it out!

I expect a strong showing of support for our industry!
Thx
Rich Ray

Hot News!!!!! (04-11-2013)

I was informed late last night that NFPA has received 35(!) Notices of Intent to Make a Motion (NITMAMs) on the 2014 edition of NFPA 25; twenty-five of these came from technical committee members (which is not good for the Chairman, Bill Koffel, as it gives the appearance that the Committee is in disarray since the ROC passed ballot). Neither myself nor my alternate (Dave Baron) have filed any NITMAMs.

I expect a strong showing of support for our industry!
Thx
Rich Ray

Here’s my ballot on the Antifreeze TIA (09-27-2012) | Report

Hello all – here’s my ballot on the antifreeze TIA. The results of the balloting so far is 26 YES, 4 NO. The TC members now have an opportunity to “change” their votes if they so choose – I do not intend to change my vote. After the TIA is “re-balloted”, the TIA has to go BACK to the NFPA Standards Council for their approval or disapproval. Once this is finalized, I will let you all know. Stay tuned & thx. Rich

Emergency TIA attached (09-10-2012) | Report

This is the proposed TIA in response to the Standards Council’s Final Decision dated 8/30/12 (prior blog post). As you can see, the Committee is attempting to craft language to convince the Standards Council to allow antifreeze concentrations in excess of what is currently acceptable if a “deterministic risk assessment” is performed. The Committee added language to 5.3.4.2.1 (3) defining “who” can do these assessments as well as to the corresponding annex section outlining what factors need to be considered when performing one of these assessments. Considering that 50% glycerine gets you about -15F protection (maximum concentration allowed currently) and 38% glycerine gets you about 0F protection, it is my opinion that the Committee is erring in trying to craft language that will give an owner 15 additional degrees F of protection when in reality the money that would be spent on these risk assessments is better spent on FIXING THE SYSTEM (converting it to a dry pipe or preaction system) or adding insulation or a heat source to the protected area. Is any risk of a fireball ever considered “good fire protection”? Consider the difference in outcome from an ignition of antifreeze solution discharged by a sprinkler in an exterior dust collector versus in an attic area above a day care center. The Committee seems convinced that fires in excess of 1.4 MW just “won’t happen”….though the Standards Council’s decision directed the Committee to consider things like Xmas trees and clustered upholstered furniture…. For this reason, I will be voting negative on this ballot. My guess is that the TIA will pass ballot regardless of my vote. My guess is also that the Standards Council will reject this version of the TIA as well. Stay tuned. If you have any comments please let me know ASAP as my ballot is due 9/20/12 – I have no idea why I thought the ballot was due this Wednesday…sorry for that.
Thx – Rich

NEW ANTIFREEZE TIA (09-10-2012) | Report

Hello everyone – The NFPA Standards Council took exceptions to the TIA on Anti-freeze that recently passed ballot by the NFPA 25 committee – their decision is attached. You can see that they struck the exceptions that were added to 5.3.4.2.1 (4) regarding the need for a deterministic risk assesssment if someone wants to use antifreeze in excess of the allowed concentrations (38% glycerine for example). They also struck language from the corresponding appendix section. As you can see, the Standards Council wasn’t thrilled with the substantiations that the Committee came up with for the excepted occupancies and for the notion of unoccuppied areas. The next blog will contain the ballot and my reasoning for voting negative to what is now the emergency response TIA to this Standards Council action.

NFPA Comments submitted (08-28-2012)

Summary:
Heads up – I just sent in my comments to the ROP. I commented on the following proposals: 25-70, 100, 104, 168, 173, 281, 284, 289, 291, 292. If anyone has any questions, please contact me – thx.

NFPA 25 ROP (06-29-2012) | Report

Here is the link to the ROP which includes NFPA 25 – you will see how I voted on the issues. I voted in opposition of the majority 23 times (+/-). The big issues in my opinion are Internal Inspections and Critical/Non-critical deficiencies (25-19 log #253, 25-281 log #330, 25-284 log #141, 25-291 log #273, and 25-292 log #243). You may also see other issues that you feel need to be commented on. Please review the ROP and submit comments to NFPA. I cannot submit them for you – but I’ll certainly help. The deadline for comments is 8/22/12. Let me know if I can help in anyway. JOIN NFPA SOON – we will need help at the NFPA Conference in Chicago in June 2013 – in order to vote at that meeting you have to be a member of NFPA for 6 months prior. DON’T WAIT! Rich

TIA on Antifreeze (06-06-2012) | Report

Hello all,
Please see the TIA – my ballot is due 6/14. I am of the opinion that I will vote to support this TIA. If you have any questions or concerns please let me know. Thx – Rich

Examples of obstructions in piping (04-16-2012) | Report

Hello – please see the attached – these are 4 examples of obstructions found in piping during internal inspections. As you know, right now, the Committee has accepted REMOVING the requirement for internal inspections from Chapter 14. We will need your help – please document any obstructions that your company finds in piping by sending me and/or Dave Baron a picture as well as the city & state where the obstruction was located as well as the type of water supply (municipal, tank, etc.) as well as the type of system (wet, dry, etc.). We will need your help also in submitting comments to NFPA once the ROP is published (due 6/22/12) – the closing date for comments will be 8/31/12. Thanks, Rich

Antifreeze solutions through spray sprinklers (04-13-2012) | Report

This report refers to the Standards Council (Final) Decision: D#12-2 from March 6, 2012. In that report it states that “it is clear that the Non-Residential Report raises significant concerns about whether the current limits on antifreeze in commercial applications contained in NFPA standards are adequate.”
A supplement to the Non-Residential Report documenting some additional testing is expected to be completed in April 2012 and I’m sure that once the information is available it will be distributed.

David R. Baron
Executive Vice President
Cybor Fire Protection Company
P: (630) 810-1161
F: (630) 810-0685
C: (630) 918-0593
[email protected]

April 2012 NFPA 25 Report to the IFPA and NFPA Report on Proposals (04-13-2012) | Report

The following is the information presented at the April 10, 2012 IFPA meeting with a copy of the 25 ROP TC letter ballot (A2013) attached so that the members can quickly referance our vote with the corresponding Log by simply accessing the item # and using the “find” function. The entire report I believe is due out in a few months.

Thanks
David R. Baron
Executive Vice President
Cybor Fire Protection Company
P: (630) 810-1161
F: (630) 810-0685
C: (630) 918-0593
[email protected]

NFPA ROP FINAL BALLOT RESULTS (04-04-2012) | Report

Hello all,
There’s the link to the final ballot results on the ROP. You’ll see the ones that I voted against (as well as a few comments I made though I voted affirmative). PLEASE take the time to READ the ballot AND get ready to start submitting comments to NFPA for the ROC meeting. The actual ROP itself will be published and available on NFPA’s website on or before 6/22/12 and the closing date for submitting a Comment is 8/22/12. If you need help “finding” things on NFPA’s website, let me know – THX

NFPA Draft of proposals received (12-22-2011) | Report

Summary:
Hello everyone – attached is the draft of the proposals received by NFPA for the upcoming version of the 2014 edition of NFPA 25. There are 335 proposals. I will be at the ROP mtg to be held Jan 17, 18, 19 2012 in San Antonio. I have yet to review these proposals but will be doing so very soon so as to be prepared for the ROP meeting. If you have an opinion on a proposal please let me know via email to [email protected] Have a safe and Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Rich

October 11th NFPA 25 Report (10-18-2011) | Report

The attached report was provided to the membership by Rich M. Ray of Cybor Fire Protection.

NFPA 25 Update (10-11-2011) | Report

Summary:
NFPA is now accepting Proposals to the 2014 edition of NFPA 25. The closing date to submit a Proposal is 11/25/11.

The ROP (Report on Proposals) meeting is scheduled for Jan 17-19, 2012 in San Antonio, TX – I will attend.

NFPA issued the attached TIA to NFPA 25.

I am going to submit two proposals to 25:

1) 8.1.6.1 (Suction supply for a fire pump) we need to add something like “as supplied by the owner” referring to the system demand (as we did in sction 8.3.5.7). Too often, the system demand is unknown by the inspector since hydraulic placards are often not available.

2) 13.4.4.1.1 (Regarding inspecting to insure that a supply of heat capable of maintaining a minimum 40F heat in a dry pipe valve enclosure exists). This needs to be moved to Chapter 4 and become part of the Owner’s Responsibility.